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This podcast episode features hosts Pat Ordoñez-Kim and Dr. Hayden Schill, along with guest Dr. Danielle Mireles. Pat and Hayden introduce the topic of oppressive structures within the academy and interview Dr. Mireles. Dr. Mireles discusses the historical context of how oppressive structures developed within higher education institutions. They provide examples from their research of Black and Brown students with disabilities facing barriers when trying to access support from Disability Resource Centers. Pat highlights the idea that higher education is ableist. Hayden asks Dr. Mireles about where these oppressive structures exist within the academy and how they contribute to the continued oppression of marginalized groups. Pat then asks Dr. Mireles to share testimonies from their research that illustrate the profound impact on marginalized individuals. Hayden goes on to ask Dr. Mireles about potential solutions and initiatives that can be implemented to create a more inclusive academic environment.

About the hosts:

• As the Executive Director, Patriccia (Pat) directs and controls all of UCGPC’s business operations and ensures its success through strategic planning, cost-based thinking, and a creative vision. Patriccia is the sole full-time staff at UCGPC. Patriccia (Pat) Ordonez-Kim (she/her) is a Ph.D. candidate at the University of California, Riverside’s School of Education. She earned a Master of Arts degree in Educational Administration in Higher Education and a Bachelor of Arts degree in Sociology from California State University, Northridge. She served as the Interim President and Vice President of External Affairs of the Graduate Student Association at the University of California, Riverside, from 2021-2022 and was an invited guest in Bill Gates’s inaugural session of ⁠Gates Notes Deep Dive⁠ on May 2021. Pat is a 1.5-generation immigrant from the Philippines and has roots in both the Tagalog and Bicol Regions of Luzon and Los Angeles, California.  
• Hayden Schill, a recent Ph.D. graduate in Experimental Psychology from the University of California, San Diego, is joining UC Riverside as an Assistant Professor of Teaching. She has served as the President of the UCGPC for the past year, representing UC graduate students to the UC Office of the President, state, and federal government. Before that, she was Vice President of External Affairs for UC San Diego’s Graduate and Professional Student Association. Hayden is passionate about ensuring that students have access to basic needs and representation in decision-making spaces, as well as climate justice and sustainability. In her free time, she enjoys exploring SoCal with her husband and pup.
• Dr. Danielle Mireles is a scholar-activist who identifies as queer, Chicanx, and dis/abled. Their work focuses on the intersections of health justice, disability rights, and racial equality. Dr. Mireles spent their formative years in the San Fernando Valley, where they attended community college before transferring to CSU Northridge for their BA in Deaf Studies. Throughout their graduate studies, Dr. Mireles worked as a direct support person for students with intellectual and developmental disabilities in the LA Community College system, gaining valuable experience in the field.

Additional reading from Dr. Danielle Mireles:

1. Mireles, D. (2022). Theorizing Racist Ableism in Higher Education. Teachers College Record, 124(7), 17–50. https://doi.org/10.1177/01614681221111428
2. Medical Industrial Complex Visual | Leaving Evidence
3. What is Disability Justice? — Sins Invalid
4. Project LETS

We want to hear from graduate students who belong to marginalized communities about their experiences with mental health during their studies. If you’re interested in sharing your story, please leave us a message here on Spotify or WordPress. The next podcast episode will be available on July 21st. Contact us at mraja004@ucr.edu for any inquiries or opinions.

Episode Transcript

Pat Ordoñez 0:03
This podcast was recorded on June 23 by Dr. Danielle Mireles, Patriccia Ordonez-Kim, Dr. Hayden Schill. The podcast was produced by Dr. Ann Cheney and Dr. Manasi Rajadhyaksha, and was edited by Diya Anantharaman. A special thanks to Dr. Mireles for their continued commitment to improving the mental health and emotional well-being of historically marginalized graduate and professional students in the academy. This episode is part of the podcast series created for the Engaging the Academy project, a capacity-building project led by Dr. Evelyn Vázquez of the School of Medicine at the University of California Riverside. We at UCR would like to respectfully acknowledge and recognize our responsibility to the original and current caretakers of this land, water, and air: the Cahuilla [ka-weeahh], Tongva [tong-va], Luiseño [loo-say-ngo], and Serrano [se-ran-oh] peoples and all of their ancestors and descendants, past, present, and future. Today this meeting place is home to many Indigenous peoples from all over the world, including UCR faculty, students, and staff, and we are grateful to have the opportunity to live and work on these homelands.

President Schill 1:27
Welcome to “Voices of Dissent,” the podcast series that provides a platform for student patients and academic and healthcare stakeholders to share their insights on patient-centered outcomes and their ideas for future intervention work. In this episode, titled “What do we do about oppressive structures in the academy?” we will delve into the pressing issues of white supremacy, ableism, homophobia, and other oppressive structures that persist within the university setting. I’m one of your hosts for this episode, Hayden Schill.

Pat Ordoñez 2:00
And I’m your co-host, Patriccia Ordoñez-Kim. Before we dive into our discussion, we want to open the podcast episode by reading a powerful narrative that encapsulates many individuals’ struggles within academia. This narrative from “Gabriel Bell”–a pseudonym–who is a non-binary grad student in STEM. resonates with the experiences of numerous students who grapple with balancing their mental health and the desire to foster an inclusive and welcoming culture within the sciences and academia. Alongside the narrative is a poignant visual representation—a drawing of love in beautifully crafted lettering. Let’s take a moment to appreciate the accompanying artwork that captures the essence of the narrative.

President Schill 2:56
In this narrative, Gabriel explains how individual work is defined by results in the STEM fields. The idea that pervades science is that an individual’s worth is defined by an individual’s ability to produce results. This concept of individual progress devalues the concept of communal progress that is central to many cultures. This devaluation further causes an individual to feel unloved. Here’s what they say: “I struggle with balancing the mental health of individual colleagues and myself with the desire to create an open, welcoming culture within the sciences and more broadly within academia. Mental well-being results from the sense of being loved (hence the picture). Love from the self and love from others contributes to feelings of wellness and connectedness. Within academia and particularly sciences, there are cultural norms that conflict with feelings of love.” Additionally, the graduate student observed covert discrimination against marginalized people in their discipline, in addition to racial biases that reinforce stereotypes that people of color are lazy, which leads to an undervaluing of their work. Direct quote: The graduate students proceeded to make comments about how a degree from that institution negatively affected my job prospects. As the first person in my family to attend university, I did not understand academic pedigree and the degree to which it was valued in academia. I understood obtaining a college education within extreme financial constraints. Basically, if I want to be accepted within the current norms of academia, I have learned to avoid discussing the religious nature of my upbringing including where I attended undergrad and anything indicating the poverty within which I grew up. Academia, particularly science, needs to realize the discriminatory nature of many norms and dismantle them so that the burden of code-switching is no longer required from underrepresented groups.”

Pat Ordoñez 5:14
These words poignantly highlight the cultural norms within academia that conflict with feelings of love and connectedness. The pressure to define one’s worth solely based on individual achievements and the subtle manifestations of cis-imperialist, capitalist, white supremacist patriarchy further contribute to a sense of being undervalued and unloved.

President Schill 5:40
Absolutely. The covert biases and discriminatory practices too often present within academic disciplines hinder the creation of an accepting and inclusive environment, whether in the classroom, lab, or office.

Pat Ordoñez 5:56
Personal experiences, such as avoiding certain aspects of our backgrounds or educational journeys, underscore many students’ challenges. It’s disheartening when mentioning where you attended undergrad leads to judgments and assumptions about job prospects, disregarding the unique circumstances and resilience it took to overcome financial constraints and be the first in your family to attend university.

President Schill 6:22
This quote really encapsulates how important it is for the academy and those within it to acknowledge and dismantle these discriminatory norms so that underrepresented groups can thrive in an environment that values the diverse experiences and contributions they bring.

Pat Ordoñez 6:39
Today’s episode will delve into these oppressive structures and discuss pathways to change. By amplifying these stories and initiating these conversations, we can contribute to a more inclusive and equitable future for all. We’re excited to have Dr. Danielle Mireles, a critical scholar in education who recently published “Theorizing Racist Ableism in Higher Education” in a special issue of Teachers College Record (TCR), join us today. But before we begin, let’s hear from Dr. Mireles as they introduce themselves and their research.

Dr. Danielle Mireles 7:19
Thank you both so much. Hi, I’m Dr. Danielle Mireles, I am currently an assistant professor in the CME program, cultural studies, multicultural education, and international education. At the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, which is on and stewarded by the Southern Paiute peoples. I do research broadly on race and disability, I mostly had a higher education focus, focusing on the racialized experiences of Black and Brown students with disabilities, whether they identify as having a disability, or have the lived experience of disability, so that might not be the language that’s being used, but having the lived experience, and more recently, I’ve been delving more into the K through 12 sites as well and thinking about how to bridge that education literature between the two.

President Schill 8:25
Dr. Mireles, let’s begin by discussing the historical context of the academy and how oppressive structures have shaped it. What factors have contributed to the presence and persistence of oppressive structures within the academy?

Dr. Danielle Mireles 8:40
For that question, so I’ll sort of just talk broadly and then more specifically connect to the work I do. So specifically, with higher education and thinking about one, write it up this with native land, institutions were built on native land. And that institutions, even the University of California, Riverside, are actually land grant institutions or land grab institutions. And I’d really encourage folks to touch up the website land grab u.org to learn more about that history. But it’s not only right that we’re on native land, but also through these land grants. That land was bought and sold to fund colleges. So colleges were given this land right that was able to be bought or sold to then finance colleges or refinance them. More recently, there’s been an acknowledgment in the past 10 years, especially with Harvard, Yale, and other colleges that are considered revered an Ivy League that they were funded by slavery and that enslaved people were involved in either building the colleges or on campus as enslaved black people working with being forced right labor to work for faculty, and staff and students on campus and so there’s those legacies. There’s a history of Eugenics being taught on campuses, a history of racial science, IQ testing. So if we look at like the Stanford B’nai right, that’s on the Stanford campus in California. eugenics was taught, again, the ivy League’s. And so we typically right think of eugenics is something that happens in Germany. But really a lot of that begins in the US nations, they, in terms of knowledge production are what counts as knowledge. And that was used to oppress black and brown people, and also people with disabilities, LGBTQ. And then, when we’re looking specifically at medical colleges, we have the Flexner Report, which a lot of folks aren’t familiar with, but actually led to the closing of several majority right of women’s college, Women’s Medical Colleges, and also black medical colleges in the United States. And so when we’re talking about not having representation and feel like medicine, we can really trace it back to these reports, right, that led to the closing of medical schools. And same with teaching, we talked about this in education, too, right? Like after Brown v Board, a lot of black educators and teachers were pushed out of teaching, right, because white schools remained open while black schools were closed. So that’s sort of the broader context of where my work is coming in. But I specifically do work on race and disability. So if we think about, for example, Disability Resource Centers, and we go back to the GI Bill, right, not everyone could use the GI Bill, right. So it’s very much well, it didn’t like explicitly say, black veterans couldn’t use it. There was language in there that really was coated with Jim Crow laws at the time. And so millions, right, like 1000s, millions of black veterans 1000s probably makes more sense. Black veterans are denied rights to the GI Bill. And so some of the earliest disabled students as students on campuses are from the GI Bill. And so some of the first Disability Resource Centers we see and support for disabled students on campus are from the GI Bill. And so when we think about well, if that was mostly white veterans, with primarily physical disabilities, and we haven’t really reckoned with that history, in terms of higher education, how are we going to accommodate black and brown students who have different experiences of disablement, racialized disablement. But we haven’t actually talked about that history of why we have DRC in the first place, and that they really were right, when we talked about higher ed, maintaining perpetuating white supremacy. And all these ways, like DRCs, are also absolutely complicit in that history, as well, both as part of higher education, but also on their own in terms of what the supports weren’t built, right with black and brown students in mind. And we haven’t really changed a lot in terms of like, what accommodations for students look like, either. And so yeah, my work is thinking about those things, specifically. And then also within higher education, like there’s just not a lot of good data either to Like, who do DRC serve, like, who are the staff? Who are the people running the centers, and so they might have disabilities, right, but they might be white folks with disabilities. And so we might have, right and that’s why intersectionality is really important. And if that, like, do we have black and brown folks who are leading DRCs? Do we have policies that are going to make access easier rather than harder. So for example, having folks have to have medical documentation is a huge barrier, because that requires that you have things like medical insurance, or health insurance, you have a doctor that you trust them believes you, right, you have a primary care provider. And so there’s all of these things that make higher education, like historically oppressive, right, all these different histories, but also in terms of the context of today. Why we’re seeing a lot of the issues we’re seeing today. And I think part of it too, is that higher ed has been very like single identity initiative. Right? So we have support for students of color. We have supports persons with disabilities, we have supports for women, we have supports for LGBTQ students, but we haven’t been great at really thinking about those identities as intersectional and that those needs are going to be different depending on which identities you occupy, right, and how those intersect with each other. And so I don’t think Iran has really contended with that in the way that needs to specifically.

Pat Ordoñez 14:24
Thanks, Dr. Mireles. Understanding how these oppressive structures impact individuals within the university is crucial. Dr. Mireles, could you share one or two testimonies or examples from your research that illustrate these structures’ profound impact on marginalized individuals?

Dr. Danielle Mireles 14:58
I can Do that. And if folks are interested, I’ve handled a lot of different narratives and many racist ableism piece and goes more into depth about the different stories. And so one part before I get into that, too, if folks aren’t familiar with the term medical industrial complex, also thinking about like ableism, and racism has been manufactured and perpetuated by our medical system, and not just like hospitals, doctors and nurses, but the way it works with other organizations like social work, right? Child Protective Services, but these are all inherently tied to the medical industrial complex. And, again, if that’s a newer term, I would check out Mia Mingus does work on that. And learn more, because one of the things about higher ed is we very much operate not just within like a medical model of disability, right, where we are focused on fixing or curing. But also we operate within the mi si, and a lot of ways we sustained right, the Mi C’s, so we’re very much embedded within this larger system. And so in my research, I interviewed 10, black and brown undergraduate students who identified who had lived experience of disability. And sort of overall, what was coming up with, like, Disability Resource Centers are positioned as sites of care. But what students were navigating was that they were sites of punishment, and that it was actually very difficult to get their accommodations, and sometimes they were withheld from students in ways that they shouldn’t be withheld. Right. So if you have an access need, it should be easy to get the support you need, right? Like there shouldn’t be so many hurdles. There’s also this embedded assumption that students are trying to cheat or game the system. I feel like this is really heightened for black and brown students, right? Like there’s already navigating affirmative action discourse, right? So even though affirmative action hasn’t existed in California, right, there’s this assumption that students got in because of affirmative action, right, like a gaming of the system. And I found that that really carried over into these conversations about the DRC that students were being perceived as like trying to cheat or game and there’s just no research to back that up. And I think that’s important to say, there’s no research that backs up, but students are trying to use access supports to somehow cheat college like, the only instance we do have of that is the college admission scandal, which involves primarily white and wealthy families, right levels, the closest thing we have that supports this narrative, and unfortunately, because of that, there’s going to be more surveillance, right and not of white and wealthy families, but of our black and brown students with disability are already having so many issues accessing support. So one narrative, right, is Tiffany probably talked about in the paper, and Tiffany is a student who attend a public university in California. She’s black, she has traumatic brain injury. And she also has what she describes as a speech impediment. And so she had a lot of issues registering for support. So she had to return multiple times to try to get her documentation accepted, even though she had what would be perceived right as having more physical disabilities, right. So you’re thinking like physical, it should be easier to get that support. In her case, it wasn’t right. So she was having to go back and forth to the doctor and DRC telling her, Hey, your disability isn’t severe enough. So we’re not going to accommodate you, right. So there’s all these things that are happening. And I want to point out to you that I interviewed students across five campuses. And so this wasn’t just happening at a single campus. This was students experiences at multiple campuses. Same with Mati saw, who identifies as Afro Latina, and she had disabilities that had evolved from having childhood cancer. And she also went in and tried to register for support and had to go multiple times back and forth her doctor to prove she actually had a disability. And she only got the support she needed when she went in the office, and she was having a breakdown. And then at that point, they said, Okay, well, we’ll temporarily accommodate you now after a whole semester of transferring, and both of them are transfer students to who had support previously, but we’re not able to use those after they’re new for, you know, third transfer institution. And so, and their stories aren’t unique. This is something that happens a lot, but there’s not really a lot of conversations that that is something that’s happening to students and so we’re thinking about, like the institution is able lips to write like, not just DRC but just like our expectations around time and turn around that like assignments is ableist, right? Like it’s built in assumptions about like, how you show up how you perform, who’s perceived as intelligence, those are all ableist and built into the institution but usually like the conversation stops at like, Okay, we have stairs and we need a ramp, right like these physical barriers, but we’re not talking about all the ways that we operate, especially right in the UC system. If you’re out of school on the quarter system that’s really fast paced, right like it’s very easy to fall behind, right. So if you’re like, something happens week Two or three, that’s already one week of 10 weeks, left in the quarter to figure it out, and so moves really quickly. And if you’re not able to get support, or maybe you’re uncomfortable, and you don’t want to get support, right, there’s this expectation within higher ed that the only way you can get support is if you go through DRC. They talk to your faculty member, and then you’re given the support. And so sometimes faculty will refuse to support you unless you go through the DRC. And there are a lot of things right we can do as faculty to support students and show up and create spaces of access in our classroom. And there’s also just like nothing that says that only has to be the DRC, right? Like, we can’t do things in our classroom that make it more accessible for our students. Whether that’s the biggest thing, right? It’s like students often need to miss class. In the pandemic world, right, like COVID is still very much a thing, right. And so some folks need more remote options. But yeah, the big thing is missing class or needing more time. And those are the two things that DRCs often do not offer our students. So the two biggest things I’ve heard in conversation, through my research is more time being able to miss class. And those are not even things that DRC offers. So being creative about how we engage students, in our spaces as faculty.

President Schill 21:16
Thank you. I know you talked about this a little bit in some previous responses, but I’d like to ask a little bit more about how these structures may organize themselves within the academy. For instance, where do these oppressive structure structures exist? How do they contribute to the continued oppression of marginalized or historically underrepresented student groups?

Dr. Danielle Mireles 21:41
Yeah, I’m I’ll speak specifically to black and brown students with disabilities. But I’ll give an example you walk into a test taking room, it is a small room, there are cameras all around you. Like that is not a good feeling, right? Like you walk into a room, you’re taking a test, there are cameras at every angle in that small room, watching you again, this rhetoric that it’s because you’re going to cheat, I actually want you so one of the students I interviewed said, I don’t like going to the test taking room, it feels like I’m in a jail cell. And so it’s very much carceral, right, in terms of how we are treating disabled students on campus, especially black and brown students with disabilities. Another is the presence of campus police, right. Like one of the first things that campuses often say is if a student’s having a mental health crisis to call campus police, which is not what we should be doing right. Also you might be perceiving as someone being in a mental health crisis, that does not mean they’re in a mental health crisis, right. So there’s a distinction between a person is experiencing mental health crisis and you’re perceiving that that experience person is experiencing a mental health crisis. And so having like knowing how to do more, right, if someone is having a mental health crisis, or struggling with their mental health, that they’re not going to get like 5150. And sent away off campus also, like leave of absence of policies are really, really, really oppressive. And there’s been a lot of articles written from the perspectives of students about how these policies have impacted them. Because if you think about it, right, if you’re struggling with depression, and you’re isolated, and my institutional response, as a higher ed, is, I’m going to isolate you from everyone you know, so you have to leave until you can prove that you’re not a harm to yourself or others. And I’m going to make you leave a campus. And now you are now isolated from the community that you are in and have been a part of, sometimes for several years, right. And so that’s not a great response, in terms of like, hey, actually, my communities here, but we’re single, there’s no place for you, right? Because you’re not fitting certain norms of what we perceive around mental health. So I think like the two places I really see it right, are DRCs and these carceral logics embedded in them, but the other is the presence of campus, please, I think do not right, create sites of care, and that they should not be involved. Right. And, and responding to mental health crisis ease, I think that there are a lot of other things we can do. And there’s organizations like, project, let’s erase the stigma. They’re doing great work around, like, how do we support a student in crisis and hold space for them? Or even just letting them know like with caps, right, so Counseling and Psychological Services, if you’re a mandated reporter, like tell a student that you’re a mandated reporter and tell them what it means. So they have the context, right of like, I’m sharing this with you, and hey, like, I’m a mandated reporter, this is what this means. And these are some some of the outcomes that might happen, right? There’s certain information I would have to share. I don’t think all students know that right? Going into those interactions. There’s a article written recently by a student at UCLA that she just shared, you have suicidal ideation, which is very different right than saying, I want to harm myself just like hey, I’ve long term struggle with suicidal ideation, but with a new counselor, and she thought, well, you’re going to harm yourself and again, result in the 5150 situation. So I also think it’s really important right to have counselors, right, recognize the ways in which counselors also can act as police faculty can also act is pleased and unpacking like how do we move away from that and actually have places of care in our classroom and just making sure people know right like the outcomes of when they are working with different services or maybe their services off campus we can connect folks to. Yeah, so I think those are the two for me that really show up.

Pat Ordoñez 25:10
Thanks, Dr. Mireles. It sounds like these sites of harm, intertwines with carceral logic and it’s also intertwined with expectations and flavor or and the way labor is produced on campuses. Shifting our focus to university administration’s right, you’ve talked about how we can show up as professors in community with students. How do you think university administration’s generally respond to the existence and impact of these oppressive structures? Such as like cops on campus or other systems?

Dr. Danielle Mireles 25:51
Yeah, well, I think like, right, like cops off campus with a really good job of telling tall, and showing us the ways in which this is not right beneficial action, or black and brown students especially feel not safe on campuses. And I think that also goes for students experiencing whoever experienced mental health crisis sees. And so in terms of administration, I mean, I think one thing, a little, not quite related, but really it to me, is we should not have requirements for medical documentation, like there should be other ways students can register for disability support, that isn’t just back, another way to sort of mitigate some of the harm happening, but also create communities have disability cultural centers on campus. So last I checked with the Center for the author’s 10 Currently in the United States Disability Cultural Center. So they’re different from Disability Resource Centers, run by folks with lived experience. So having like black and brown, right, queer and trans folks with disabilities who have that lived experience to run these centers, right and create spaces of community. And the same way we have other cultural centers on campus, right. So like Chicano student programs, that we have those spaces for disabled students that exists really outside this medical model, and aren’t just about like, Okay, here’s, you know, a cookie cutter accommodation, and that’s kind of like all we’re going to do, but how these spaces that makes disabled students feel like they belong, and also help like with like, things like organizing, right, so identifying what issues are on campus in meaningful ways. So I think that’s one piece that’s really important that administrators could work on is and I, there’s already movement towards this, I will say, like ahead, which is the big disability organization, and higher ed had set to stop using medical documentation, like over 10 years ago, and there really hasn’t been a shift to stop doing that. And a lot of institutions. And then the rise act recently is also proposing that, within that, and I would recommend looking at the right back, and the National Center for Learning Disabilities, which has been really involved in that to remove medical documentation, that’s the only way that students could access support some higher education. So I think that’s one move that would have hopefully a pretty big impact in terms of just students being able to access the supports they need. Um, and I also know that displacement services is historically really underfunded, that’s an office too. And then within that having more folks with lived experience and experiences having more black and brown folks working in those offices, and leadership roles and making decisions, who have the same experiences as our students. And so we’re gonna be able to best speak to that, and then also have students in leadership roles within those offices as well. So there’s some things I think that could change on the admin could assist with. Thank you. Yes,

President Schill 28:33
we saw a lot, as a as, I guess, an organization about how important representation is. And so over the last, in the last few minutes, we’ve talked a lot about the challenges that some marginalized communities face within the academy. Now, I’d like to expand on some of the actually the comments that you just had and explore potential ideas, proposals or solutions that can help mitigate the impact of these oppressive structures. And so we’ll we’ll actually dive into this topic and a little bit more depth in a future episode of this podcast series, but we’d love to hear your expertise and thoughts on strategies or initiatives that can be implemented in order to create a more inclusive and equitable academic environment.

Dr. Danielle Mireles 29:18
Yeah, well, I think the biggest thing is that like, first, black and brown students with disabilities are brilliant, right? Like they are knowledgeable, they know best about their experiences. And so like, but like most obvious thing is right, like start positioning, black Americans with disabilities as experts of their own lived experiences, not DSS, faculty, or staff, right, not college faculty, but the students are the experts of our experience. So they’re the experts of their body mind. They know what works best for them. I think that’s really like the most obvious, but the hardest thing right for higher education to understand is that they are knowledge holders and generators, and so they should have absolutely be at the front of these conversations. And that lived experience is really important. Other things in terms of just like the campus community, I think, too, like people have a really narrow understanding of disability, right. So, and I’m coming out of the Education Department, right, where we have like in special education, Gen Ed are completely separate. The fact that we still call it Special Education used to be deeply problematized and unpacked. And then we mostly like so in teaching education, right, like 70% 75% of it I’m going to look at are white women in special education, it’s 90%, white women, and so we just don’t have a lot of diversity, even in terms of faculty, right? Or like disabled faculty, like, oftentimes, I’ll share, right, like in conversations with my students that have a disability, and I’m their first disabled faculty member. So that’s just like, not super common and not super normalized. So I think like having role models, in terms of faculty, right, and also that, like, what do we do to retain faculty with disabilities? I don’t think there’s a lot of conversations about that, such as Black and Brown faculty with disabilities, because our access needs are going to look really different. I think also just shifting the language, we tend to be like, Oh, what are your special support, we all have access needs. So like, regardless if you have a disability or not, you have access needs. And I think this was really obvious during the pandemic, when students who maybe didn’t have disabilities were experiencing like extreme Zoom fatigue and burnout, that that was an access needs like I can no longer be on Zoom like this isn’t working for me, or I need humans like those are access needs. But we tend to only think of access needs or support needs is something that happens with disability. And so I think really like normalizing that language. I have in my syllabi, a statement, separate from the DRC statement, that’s a statement on access needs. So acknowledging that everyone has access needs, please check in with me, right, like, let’s see what we can do. And that could be like other examples to access things like care being a caregiver, right. So like having either a small child, or maybe a family member, that you are the primary caregiver, that that’s potentially an access need, that’s going to change how you are able to participate and show up in class, I also have a policy that you don’t have to be super intimate with me, like, I don’t think there should be so much worse intimacy, and that, like, you have to share everything for me, and I am the judge, if I believe you or not, like, I don’t think that’s a healthy dynamic we have in higher education. It’s also not the case, if you were in a job and a lot of places, right? Like you wouldn’t have to be so intimate with what you share. But it makes me sad that our students feel like they have to do that. And I can tell they’re uncomfortable doing that. Because we’ve created this culture of like, I don’t believe you like my first response is I don’t believe you. And so I think having spaces where we just open up the conversation about sharing access needs. And so I always been like my doors open. And that’s really changed, like the dynamics I’ve had with students that they do come and talk to me earlier in the quarter semester. And they do let me know, I’m like, Hey, this is what’s going on. Doesn’t have to be a lot and like, Great, let’s see what we can do. So you can be successful in the class. And so I think a lot of it for me, like yes, add to like some of these overarching policies, right. So like Lisa has sent policies, and removing medical documentation, defending campus, police on campuses, these are all stuff that need to happen. But I think a lot of it is like, what do we do in our actual classrooms or our offices of staff, like, start from what you can do? Right? So there’s other things that are probably going to take longer, or not happen as quickly in a timeline. There’s so many things that we can start doing Mr. spaces that change those dynamics. So that could be as teaching assistants, as faculty of staff, seeing where we can push back, right, like, Okay, I feel like right here, I have a little bit of room right to sort of change how this has been done, historically, in ways that are more accommodating. I’ll bring up me I mean, again, you know, she has this notion of liberatory access off the thinking of access as liberation, right? Or like access. Alphonse talks about this too, with Sandy Hook me and me as access as an act of love, right? It’s not just this legal compliance, right, this culture of compliance we created but I’m doing this out of like a love for my students, and doing this that I believe that leads us closer to liberation within the academy. Not the academy itself, right, but as individual actors within the academy, but that moves us closer to liberation in ways that hopefully feel good to our students and that they should be really involved in what that looks like and just being open to feedback, right? Like you’re not going to do it perfectly. So room for like you’re gonna make mistakes, but also be accountable. When those mistakes cause harm and keep trying. I think it takes a lot of creativity to write have. It’s been a certain way for a long time. So be creative on how you’re trying to change things.

Pat Ordoñez 34:50
Thanks, Dr. Mireles, and thank you for highlighting the need for Disability Cultural Centers. I do want to spotlight In the efforts of the UC Student Association, they are advocating for Disability Cultural Centers on UC campuses, when they talked with the UC office of the President’s budget staff members. And so I’m glad that there is some intersection between what’s happening with UC GPCs work and your line of work. Thank you again for sharing your insights and expertise, especially on disability rights, the experiences of disabled black and brown students, and highlighting access needs, not just for the sake, disabled folks or labeled disabled folks, but access needs for everyone such as student parents, or caregivers for elderly or very young people. Today’s conversation has shed light on the historical context, impact on individuals, their persistence, administrative perspectives and possible solutions to oppressive structures in academia. Starting from our own practices as educators, teaching assistants, and community members, we encourage our listeners to continue the conversation, share their stories, and take action within their academic communities. Next time we will delve into mental health testimonials from graduate students from historically marginalized communities, highlighting their experiences, and advocating for a healthier Academy. This project is funded through a Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (PCORI) Eugene Washington Engagement award. The project is conducted in partnership with UCR faculty, staff, and students, Solid Ground Wellness in Recovery, the University of California Graduate and Professional Council (UCGPC), and UCR Health. Check out our webinar and podcast series on the Engaging the Academy webpage- https://healingtheacademy.com/engaging-the-academy

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