Official Blog | UCGPC

Hosts: Gabriela Ortiz and Maira Tafolla Magana

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Listen to the podcast here: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ucgpc/episodes/Breaking-the-Silence-Graduate-Students-from-Historically-Marginalized-Communities-Share-their-Mental-Health-Experiences-e2af33n

Speaker 1 0:05
This podcast was recorded on July 14 by Dr. Anthony Keppler teas and medical Koya. The podcast was produced by Dr. Anthony and Dr. Manasi Radjadhyaksha and was edited by DIA and then got a much a special thanks to Dr. Evelyn Vasquez for their continued commitment to improving the mental health and emotional well being of historically marginalized graduate and professional students in the academy. This episode is part of the podcast series created for the Engaging the Academy project, a capacity-building project led by Dr. Evelyn Vasquez of the School of Medicine at the University of California, Riverside. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Voices of Dissent, a podcast series that provides a platform for student patients and academic and healthcare stakeholders to share their insights on patient-centered outcomes and their ideas for future intervention work. I am your host, Gabby Rotis. I’m here with my data for you and Dr. Angenieux. And for today’s episode titled Breaking the Silence graduate students from historically marginalized communities to share their mental health experiences. We’ll delve into the pressing issues of graduate student mental health and well-being in the academy, particularly for those from currently and historically marginalized communities. Before we begin, we’d like to recite a land acknowledgment. We at UCR would like to respectfully acknowledge and recognize our responsibility to the original and current caretakers of this land, water, and air, the Cahuilla Tonga, Louiseño peoples and all of their ancestors and descendants past, present, and future. Today. This meeting place is home to many indigenous peoples from all over the world, including UCSF faculty, students, and staff. We are grateful to have the opportunity to live and work in these homelands. Hi,

Speaker 2 1:45
I’m Ira. In the last episode host Hayden and Patriccia with special guest, Dr. Danielle Mireles examined some oppressive structures in the academy, including white supremacy, ableism, and homophobia, and how they produce a hostile environment where feelings of isolation are prevalent. In this episode, we center the voices of graduate and professional students who have historically been excluded from the Academy. These testimonials are part of Healing the Academy addressing mental health disparities among underrepresented graduate students, a community-based project aimed at understanding the particular ways in which the oppressive structures of academia covered in episode one impact the mental and emotional health of graduate students at UCR. Before we

Speaker 1 2:33
begin and share with you all the testimonials, so we’d like to briefly mention that each of the testimonials we’ll be sharing speaks to a feeling emotion, or state of being that graduate and professional students have experienced in their academic careers. But we’ll also share some highlights of the positive feelings or experiences as they are part of the totality of the academic experience. Let’s begin by describing the photo that one participant shared the photo, there are a few dollar bills laid out to be precise, it looks like three $20 bills with three crinkled $5 bills and a quarter. They’re laid out neatly on top of a blue folder it looks like and the direct quote associated with it reads, I struggle providing financial support to my family and my Cameroonian family and students. The expectation from much of my extended family and family friends is I will earn my doctorate and find a well-paying job. This will allow me to take care of my parents and siblings. In addition to this, I have strong connections to the Cameroonian village in which I lived during my service with the Peace Corps. My village is currently in the middle of a war between the current Francophone-controlled government and the disenfranchised Anglophone voices. As a result, many of my former students have fled the village to cities. Sometimes I feel as though I have a stack of bricks to hold up. I cannot become sick or pursue more risky life paths because I have these people depending on me. And this is a quote coming from a participant the senator named Gabriel Bell and they are in a STEM field.

Speaker 2 4:12
Wow. I mean, I feel like this is an incredible, so powerful and honest testimonial, especially, you know, as it pertains to people of color. Our families and communities have worked so hard to help us access these academic spaces and you know, really work together to get us into graduate school and there’s so much pressure on students to finish the program that they started and give back to either their families and or their communities. I feel like these expectations carry so much Wait, and it impact us as graduate students in in ways that I can’t even begin to describe.

Speaker 1 4:57
Yeah, absolutely. I completely resonate with At and I think it immediately makes me think of back when I was a child thinking about what I wanted to be when I grew up. It was always these very whimsical ideas, right? Like an artist, a singer, an opera singer, a skater, a figure skater, not knowing that you know, these, these professions, these disciplines, they require a certain level of privilege, right privilege in terms of like, wealth, connections. And so we’re encouraged to pursue these very practical careers, right, and there’s like that. It’s, it’s now become a meme or a funny, a funny aspect of growing up a person of color, where the only things the only viable career options are a medical doctor, not even a PhD, but a medical doctor, right, or an engineer, or maybe even a lawyer. And I knew that I got this a lot from my parents, right? The expectation was for me to have a very practical career, one that would ensure that I would have a job immediately after graduating. I don’t know how that connects with you, Dr. Shinya loves to get your insight.

Speaker 3 6:20
There. Thanks, Gavin. So as you were speaking, it reminded me of when I was a child. I don’t know exactly the age, but I was still taking naps, because I remember sitting around with my older brother, my second oldest brother, and my youngest brother, my mother had given us macaroni and cheese for lunch, I think I probably was about four years old. And I remember, it’s such a distinct memory for me. We had just watched a program on PBS, we had two channels, I grew up in a very rural area of upstate New York, I grew up on a farm. And when I was eating that macaroni, I kept thinking about what I had just watched on PBS, and it was about human evolution. And I’m an anthropologist, and I often think back to that moment, about how, because of the area I lived in, and because we had two channels that we could watch, we did not have cable, I didn’t have cable until I was in sixth or seventh grade, that that exposure to human evolution really shaped my thinking. And for me, I actually, I think that I, for a long time wanted to be an archaeologist, I wanted to do something even though I had no idea. I didn’t even know how to articulate something like that until I got to undergraduate school, when I learned that there was something called anthropology. But I really resonate with what you’re saying, because we don’t often when we’re from historically marginalized backgrounds, we don’t have the model of, well, you’re going to be a lawyer, you’re going to be a doctor, or you’re going to be a professor. When I was in undergraduate, and I decided that I was going to major in anthropology, I had no idea what graduate school was. And it was only through a, my friend’s boyfriend who was in a graduate program did I think that could even be a possibility. And I went to that same school that he went to, because that was the model that I knew.

Speaker 1 8:33
I think that’s actually really interesting in terms of like speaking of a model to either look up to, and that provides some exposure, right? Because then we’re thinking about these students who may go into these careers, essentially, navigating the unknown and unknown terrain, right, therefore, maybe they’re like, not forced, but pressured into pursuing these very particular careers or disciplines that don’t speak to who they are as a person, but just based solely on the familiar familial expectation for them to then grow up get a job and provide essentially for, for their family or the you know, in the future when they when they then create their own families. And like that lack of model I think really shapes the experiences as you have mentioned on your training. And anything that speaks to the importance of having representation in the academy, to both expose and guide students who have other wise received very little to no guidance in the Academy because these are such unknown spaces.

Speaker 2 9:40
Yeah, I’m gonna jump in here too. And just add that, you know, unknown, unknown spaces to the students that are there and once they’re, they enter, it’s really hard to back out and to, you know, leave because you feel or at least I felt as though I already start I did, even though there were so many times where I just wanted to leave. But I was like I can’t my parents, my family, everyone is depending on me, even though up to this point, my parents have absolutely no idea what I’m doing. Which is so interesting to me. And the most, the best way to describe to them is, you know, I’m a psychologist, and they understand that, but they don’t know the nuances of being in an education program. That’s human development and psychology. And it’s, it’s almost comical sometimes. The next image is like a bunch of flowers close up. And there’s a little bee pollinating one of the of the white flowers. Yeah, and the direct quote is, maybe I think like this because of my imposter syndrome. And or because of the overworking culture in graduate school. But I feel that if I work hard, like a B, I will be more valued as a graduate student. Unfortunately, I feel like my anxiety feels the imposter syndrome, I constantly experience this makes me believe that I somehow I cheated the system to get into graduate school, and that I am not worthy enough to deserve a PhD education. Thankfully, therapy has helped me to be aware of this condition, and has helped me manage my anxiety. And this came from Amelia who is also part of the STEM field. And I can get started with this. I just want to briefly say that we enter these academic spaces, they’re so foreign, and they constantly reject us. And we’re constantly having to prove ourselves being worthy. And it affects so many of us. And you know, I especially love this testimonial, because it highlights the importance of therapy, and how much it can, you know, help alleviate some of that anxiety that too often comes with being a graduate student, especially a graduate student of color.

Speaker 1 12:13
Yes, absolutely. And I think this, like you said, merit, you know, it speaks to, to these feelings of having to constantly be productive, which is sort of what we touched on the previous image and the previous testimonial. And I think, for me, what, what a positive thing to highlight from this quote is that this participant, Amelia, is very open about going to therapy. And really just thinking about how therapy has been, has been talked about in my generation, you know, I’m a millennial. And so I feel like our generation was sort of beginning to openly talk about therapy and mental health, and access those resources. But I just feel like Gen Z has completely propelled forward, D stigmatizing seeking mental health therapy, talking openly about mental health. And I think it’s important to have those conversations, especially in the academy, where again, we’re forced to reckon with these expectations, productivity. And so oftentimes, when we’re talking about mental health, you know, we may be seen as, as, as soft or sensitive, and those, you know, those those ways of being are negatively or negatively looked at and I feel like those can be those can be strengths, you know, being empathetic is a strength, being sympathetic is a strength. And I feel like these are also qualities that, that make good faculty, big, excellent faculty, they make great mentors, because they can sympathize and empathize with with the student. And so if we’re not openly talking about the issues of mental health in the academy, how are we going to address those issues? And I think this is exactly why this project is so critically important, as we’re continuing to see how the academy is changing little by little, but we see the forces of the students right there. They’re being more vocal, they’re speaking up. And I think this is very much because we’re openly talking about what’s what’s wrong.

Speaker 3 14:25
So I completely agree with this image, opens up conversations about anxiety, depression, other experiences of mental health, during higher education or during the process of studying for your doctorate or in professional education. And that continues into your career as you go through if you have the opportunity to get a tenure track position. So I want to just acknowledge that yes, it’s incredibly important to have Accessing mental healthcare services. But what this conversation also, really sparks is in highlights rather than Spark, it highlights the structures that create this feeling of being an imposter. So there’s something that I wanted to just highlight that the academy is unforgiving. And that when you make a misstep, or a failure, it is punitive. And I have to say, one way that we, as women and scholars of color, can navigate those structural inequities is by resources. And I would highly recommend to all scholars, if you have the financial resources, whether it be via a compliment, which is a recruitment package, or other kinds of monies that you can access to get a coach. And this is a coach that helps you navigate the structures of the academy. And we often don’t think about getting a coach, we think about getting mental health therapy for our anxiety, and for our depression because of how we’re treated by our colleagues or how we’re treated by our our graduate advisor. But we also can get coaches so that we can build our confidence, we can feel more part of the actual structures of higher education, and we can develop leadership skills so that we can change those structures.

Speaker 1 16:34
That idea of like a professional coach, I think it’s, I think it’s fantastic. And I’m wondering if, you know, this perhaps for a later conversation towards the end when we conclude, but I wonder if this is something that graduate students can advocate for, for their department to to pay for, I know that there are, you know, PhD sort of resources to help you navigate those spaces like PhD flour. I know there’s a website, and I will find it later, but some like faculty first or something, and they have numerous workshops. And I’m also wondering, like, if, if we really examine the importance of having these professional coaches, let’s let’s try to make it part of, of the package right that students get when they enter graduate school. For instance, I would say UCR, it would be monumental to have that because we are a Hispanic serving institution. So you have a diverse cohort of students coming from various backgrounds, most of which have likely are maybe likely the first in their families to go to college or first their families to go to graduate school. And so I feel like now that, that knowing that the responsibility should fall on the on the academy on the academic institution to provide these resources to, to, to maintain retention of the students who would otherwise likely drop out as Mara was mentioning, and so kind of thinking about resources, let’s make the academy pay part, let’s make the department pay for it.

Speaker 2 18:15
And this idea of a coach to it’s just makes me think of preventative care, right, as opposed to waiting till there’s something wrong till the anxiety or the depression has gotten so bad that now we need to access, you know, mental health care. So why don’t we start before why don’t we start earlier so that we, you know, prevent students from getting there in the first place. And I agree that it should be, you know, like a larger system responsibility and not a student’s responsibility.

Speaker 1 18:50
Before we go into the lesson, federal image I wanted to pose this question to you are Cassini is how, how have you worked through these feelings of a bee being an imposter of imposter syndrome? To the ever go away? Are they just something that you have to identify a dress and somehow manage the like compartmentalize? I mean, what are some strategies that you can offer?

Speaker 3 19:14
Wonderful question. So it is an ongoing practice. And I have had a coach and she was an amazing and wonderful coach who really helped me understand my positionality within the academy as a woman scholar, a scholar who does community engaged participatory research, which is not the traditional type of research and so it’s innovative, it’s novel, people don’t know how to think about it. In largely it’s thought about as risky and putting the school at risk. So I am a risky woman who is volatile and super needy. That’s the kind of the the image So, what I’ve done through coaching is to one recognize how others might see me. And then think through strategically, well, how do I want to be represented? And how do I want to navigate in those spaces. So I’ve learned a lot about humility, and sharing my voice. And knowing when I advocate for women, and faculty of color, and what I advocate for historically marginalized graduate students that I will get rolling of eyes, and that I, as a white woman, will be criticized and attacked for being an ally and for advocating, because the assumption is that I know nothing. And I’m incompetent. And so I think for me, because I am a white woman, I have a level of privilege in the academy. And I try hard to use that privilege in a way that can influence others to think about structural racism, and how they are in an institution that does not want people like me, that does not want faculty of color that does not want historically marginalized groups in the in the academy. And it’s not that they as individuals don’t want it, it’s that the system that they are in, is set up to shape their thinking. Absolutely. I

Speaker 2 21:34
mean, how how much can people take, right, like, there comes a point where you just have to decide enough is enough, and I matter more, and my mental health matters more, and my happiness matters more, you know, as much as we want it, and also, like, quitting, you know, has such a negative connotation. But I do think that we are starting to see that shift as well, that quitting means that you are brave and you are resilient, and you are choosing you over a system that you know, it’s going to be a while before we really see transformative change and before we see it, wanting to uplift marginalized communities.

Speaker 1 22:19
I’m wondering now, if Dr. Cine you, in your perspective, do you think that there may be more people who think like you, but who may not feel like they can speak up?

Speaker 3 22:39
Absolutely. So, I feel that because of the structures in the academy, particularly when you are non-tenured, when you do not have that stability of that job stability, it is more difficult to advocate. But I will say that even when I was in a non-tenure track position, I advocated and I had in the back of my mind. If I have to pivot and leave, I will have done it as authentically as I possibly could. I will have been myself in this space, knowing that my goal was to change the space

Speaker 2 23:25
salutely Thank you so much for for adding that Dr. Cine. So I’m going to shift us over to our third image. And, you know, I’ll start by describing the image

Unknown Speaker 23:38
it looks like

Speaker 2 23:41
it is a bridge by a body of water. And there is a little table with food on top it looks like a hot dog and some chips and a beverage. You and Gabi maybe I’ll pass over the direct quote to you.

Speaker 1 24:01
Absolutely, thank you. The quote starts by saying I enjoy trying new food or visiting my favorite eateries in and out of town. I really take pleasure in a great meal that brings back great memories of friends events just makes everyday special. Although some people might take this for granted, graduate school really makes it difficult to enjoy these experiences since we’re constantly asked to work for extensive periods of time. It was normal for me to skip meals at times due to sufficient money or because I needed to make a deadline. In this sense, cultural centers on campus became very important to me since they always had food available or had events with Latin X food available. This was by Lupe who is in the social sciences. You know this really this quote? Again, it connects so well with the previous conversation that we were having about where you know the selection of graduate students where we’re separating, we’re isolating and then we’re also Not we but like the academy is also breeding these, these this environment of competition. And so the student really mentioned the importance of, of cultural centers. And I think absolutely yes, I know that ECR has some amazing cultural centers or even cultural social clubs. And so really thinking about the way that isolation has bred in the academy, particularly for folks who, you know, may be more inclined to speak up or dissent, or advocate for themselves or for one another, that really highlights the importance of these cultural centers, or these social clubs where the opportunity is there to find like minded people who can become lifelong friends, who can create community with where otherwise, you may have not been able to meet these folks who may think like you who may want to link up with you, and you know, disrupt the system together, there’s, you know, the cliche is dance through there is power in numbers. And so I think cultural centers and social clubs really create these, these very beautiful moments of possibilities, as well as places where transformation can take place. And so the

Speaker 3 26:09
conversation in this image just makes me think of go back to what’s familiar to us, that makes us comfortable, we’re in an uncomfortable environment. And we have to remember that at the end of the day, this is a job. In graduate school, you are doing a job and you’re preparing for a professional career. But at the end, it’s a job, and don’t lose sight of what’s important. Do not forget to eat and enjoy life while you’re doing all of this.

Speaker 2 26:39
That was incredible, Dr. Teeny, thank you for, for sharing that. I think, you know, now myself as a graduate student, it’s still so powerful to hear this and to hear this coming from somebody who is established and who is, you know, so successful in their careers. And I think this is a glimpse that we don’t always get from our advisors.

Speaker 3 27:04
So this just, it really resonates with me what you’re saying, Myra. So I’m an athlete, and I was a student athlete, and I still consider myself an athlete. And when we think about athletes and training, you train very intensely, but you have to take a break. If you don’t take a break, then your body becomes depleted, your mind becomes depleted, you cannot function in the game setting at full throttle, if you are constantly pushing yourself to the edge. And I think that that’s very important. That idea and imagery for when we think about the academy, when we think about being a graduate student and a faculty member. In graduate school, I always tell my students you are learning a skill, you will eventually master that skill, you will master how to write a grant, how to write a publication, a manuscript to submit for peer review, you will master how to teach. So in that process of mastery, you need to give yourself space to process and that processing is during the downtime when you need to rejuvenate when you need to actually live life. Not be in front of a computer screen not be constantly thinking about the book, you need to read the article, you need to read the paper you need to write.

Speaker 1 28:33
Thank you, I actually really appreciate that line. At the end of the day, it’s just a job. And I think that perfectly encapsulates the heart of like, really the heart of this of this conversation around, you know, feeling the pressures of the academy and the family, feelings of impostor syndrome and isolation. And that, again, is this like, seems so small, this little reminder that it’s just a job.

Speaker 3 29:00
So I’d like to wrap it up and move on to some recommendations if that’s all right, with you got it in my area?

Unknown Speaker 29:10
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, definitely.

Speaker 3 29:13
So, this conversation reminds me and makes me think of a number of things. But when I want to recommend that we hold as graduate students and faculty administrators accountable for preventing hostile and toxic practices. I also want to acknowledge that health care providers within our university health care systems to health systems, they too can play a role, they can play a role on decolonizing healthcare services. So we talked a lot about mental health, depression and anxiety. Among historically marginalized graduate and professional students. This means that our mental health care services they also need to speak to the diverse needs of our student population. So we have to be critical of the existing therapy years and practices that we use within mental health care services and ensure that those speak to our historically marginalized student populations. For faculty, we need to be humble, we need to be positive, and we need to frame the experience as professional development and job preparation rather than as an identity. We also need to be mindful of breaks and giving students space to process information in transition to the different phases within their academic career and profession. And we need to be transparent about our own struggles. Students look up to us. We serve as role models, and we need to model healthy behaviors and expectations within our jobs. And for all of us in the academy, we need to share resources and we can do to help historically marginalized students who navigate for the first time within their families often higher Education